| Dr Motoyama is a scientist as well as a yogi, | | | | HM: Before we make a theory we must find out |
| philosopher and priest. He is a man of many | | | | the facts. So at my Research Institute we |
| varied interests and talents specializing in | | | | measured many subjects, maybe about 100,000 |
| oriental medicine, computing and electrical | | | | so far (over 20 years), and fortunately we |
| engineering who is also a parapsychologist, | | | | have been able to investigate many psychics, |
| spiritual healer and seer. He is head of the | | | | martial arts masters and yogis as well as |
| Institute for Life Physics, Tokyo, and the | | | | students of our own disciplines, yoga |
| California Institute for Human Science, | | | | exercises and meditation, and so-on. We have |
| California. He is concerned with elucidating | | | | been able to detect the chakras, and also I |
| the nature of religious experience and the | | | | have some ability to see the chakras and |
| existence of 'subtle energies' using | | | | whether they are awakened in a person or not. |
| scientific methods. To aid in this he has | | | | So firstly I would clearly see with my ESP |
| built two machines: one to measure the 'ki' | | | | ability [psychic ability] which chakra is |
| energy in the meridians (the AMI machine) and | | | | awakened. |
| another to measure the energy of the chakras | | | | |
| or energy centres of the body (The Chakra | | | | If the chakra is awakened we can see the very |
| instrument). The AMI instrument is in use in | | | | bright colours of the aura and also feel much |
| some American and many Japanese medical | | | | energy from this awakened chakra. Then we |
| institutions as a diagnostic tool and for | | | | measured subjects with the AMI machine and |
| research into health and disease and also the | | | | have been able to determine if particular |
| paranormal. In this interview with Share | | | | chakras are awakened, for example those who |
| International he talks about some of his | | | | have the manipura chakra awakened have highly |
| scientific ideas and thoughts for the future | | | | energized spleen, liver, stomach meridians. |
| development of this area of research and | | | | After analysing much data obtained from many |
| diagnosis. | | | | kinds of psychics or 'normal' people, I |
| | | | found, on the basis of this data and on the |
| Share International: Dr Motoyama, could you | | | | basis of my own super-natural understanding |
| tell us how you got the idea for building the | | | | of such people, that we could connect the |
| AMI machine and what are the actual physical | | | | specific meridians with each chakra and link |
| principles on which it is based? | | | | this with traditional theories about the |
| | | | chakras. For example, a person with an |
| Dr Hiroshi Motoyama: Yes. I had many | | | | awakened manipura chakra can control the |
| experiences, beginning 40 to 45 years ago, of | | | | emotions, and also the functioning of the |
| the flow of vital energies during my yoga | | | | digestive system. We learnt much about each |
| exercises and I clearly felt, around the | | | | meridian and chakra from working with yogis |
| meridians [energy channels], some vital | | | | and could link this with our AMI data. |
| energy like water and heat going around my | | | | |
| body. Particularly I felt Kundalini Shakti or | | | | SI: I know you have done some work on |
| power was very strong around the spine. At | | | | telepathy between individuals and have found |
| about this time I suffered a lot from disease | | | | how different kinds of telepathy affect the |
| and instability and for this reason I often | | | | different chakras. Could you say something |
| couldn't get up, so I decided to practise | | | | about that? |
| Yoga. After six months to a year I was so | | | | |
| much better that I began to experience for | | | | HM: Telepathy usually affects, in different |
| myself the ki or prana energy in my body. | | | | ways, the different chakras. Mostly, |
| | | | telepathy in which companions are connected |
| Later when I was a young lecturer in science | | | | or related by their emotions or by the |
| at Tokyo University, my students did not | | | | imagination is due to the manipura centre |
| believe me when I told them of my | | | | (solar plexus) receiving that telepathy. The |
| experiences, using logical arguments only. I | | | | person who has awakened the manipura is very |
| thought that their minds were too heavily | | | | sensitive, can be affected by other people |
| influenced by science and so I wanted to | | | | very easily and finds it easy to receive |
| verify such vital or subtle energies flowing | | | | information from 'outside'. They can easily |
| in the body by scientific methods or | | | | be influenced by the power of the other |
| research.The first time I measured this type | | | | person and information can easily come in. |
| of body function was with the EEG | | | | However if a person has awakened the ajna |
| Electroencephalogram or ECG Electrocardiogram | | | | chakra [the energy centre between the |
| methods used in traditional Western medicine, | | | | eyebrows] the telepathy is very different. |
| but it is very difficult to detect such | | | | Then it is a very pure, intellectual |
| energy, and Western medicine can 'catch' only | | | | telepathy and very clear, whereas the |
| the nervous or muscle tension in the form of | | | | telepathy given through the manipura chakra |
| electricity, electrical potential or active | | | | is very much connected with the emotions and |
| potential in the nerves. | | | | with a person's own imagination. Sometimes it |
| | | | can be mixed with unconscious thoughts. If |
| One day, about 25 years ago, I was invited by | | | | either the manipura or the ajna centre is |
| a visiting professor to his university in | | | | awakened, it is possible to both receive |
| India where we examined, using EEG and so-on, | | | | telepathy or send telepathic transmission at |
| Yogis and T'ai Chi Chuan masters. I think all | | | | will to others. However in the case where the |
| the hard work we did gave me a stomach ulcer, | | | | svadisthana chakra [the sacral centre] is |
| partly because during the spiritual | | | | awakened, all such people have some |
| consultations I did with many people I used | | | | telepathic ability and can receive some |
| only the Manipura (solar plexus or Hara) | | | | information from others, but the ability is |
| chakra, which connects to the stomach | | | | only spontaneous; they cannot control it at |
| meridian.After my stay in India I thought | | | | will and cannot send telepathic thoughts to |
| perhaps my investigations of such an idea of | | | | others. So if people say they sometimes have |
| prana or ki energy were wrong, as we cannot | | | | intuition or telepathy but they cannot |
| measure or detect these energies with | | | | control it at will, that means their |
| traditional medical instruments. So I decided | | | | telepathy mostly belongs to the svadisthana |
| to develop a new machine. I had studied | | | | chakra, and is very raw. |
| electronic engineering while at the naval | | | | |
| academy and at university, so now I was able | | | | SI: Could you explain a little bit about what |
| to build a circuit to make a new machine to | | | | you mean by subjective and objective science? |
| find a way of detecting the 'body fluid | | | | |
| function'. That is the history of the AMI, | | | | |
| which stands for Apparatus for measuring the | | | | HM: Objective science means we can understand |
| functioning of the Meridians and their | | | | or observe something from a common base with |
| corresponding Internal organs. | | | | other people. Sometimes also objective means |
| | | | the science that is based on the sense |
| SI: Have you built any other machines apart | | | | perceptions. For example, I can see this cup: |
| from the AMI? | | | | you can see it also, and this means we can |
| | | | say it is objective. But the subjective is |
| HM: Yes. My other machine is the chakra | | | | always there. For example we both see this |
| machine which was developed two-to-three | | | | cup but perhaps you perceive it differently |
| years after completing the AMI machine. By | | | | from me according to your subjective feeling |
| directing energy from the subtle energy | | | | and understanding which is different from |
| centre of the chakra the surrounding | | | | mine. We can say the same thing about |
| electromagnetic environment can perhaps be | | | | intuition or telepathy. Sometimes people say |
| changed. Also the lower body has a kind of | | | | that intuition is very subjective, but I |
| static potential which disappears when energy | | | | don't think so. If you have the same ability |
| is discharged from the body. So, in a | | | | as I have, you can, for example, see the same |
| completely dark room, insulated from physical | | | | kind of spiritual entity as I do, so |
| energies from outside, a person with psychic | | | | sometimes during meditation with my disciples |
| ability can direct energy via their awakened | | | | and students we receive the same kind of |
| chakra and produce light and we can detect | | | | telepathic information. That means some |
| this light and its direction. The instrument | | | | activity common to all, doesn't it? So there |
| to detect this light and the changes in the | | | | are many meanings of objective and |
| electromagnetic field is called the chakra | | | | subjective. |
| machine. This machine's first aim was to | | | | |
| register light or psychokinetic power and to | | | | SI: My understanding of quantum physics is |
| see if it could influence an electrical | | | | that the observer can actually affect what is |
| atmosphere, or whether a person can produce | | | | observed, that the two are linked. Doesn't |
| light or not. | | | | this form a link between Western science and |
| | | | Eastern philosophies or religions? |
| SI: Can you yourself detect or see whether an | | | | |
| illness has a karmic cause, is incurable, or | | | | HM: The quantum, for instance, as in the |
| whether it can be cured? | | | | Heisenberg uncertainty principle, depends |
| | | | only on the instrument we use to observe |
| HM: That depends on one's understanding of | | | | things. For instance if we use a photon to |
| the human being. I understand the human being | | | | observe elementary particles like electrons |
| to consist of three dimensions: a body, mind | | | | or neutrons, according to the type of |
| and spirit and each of them has | | | | measurement used we can measure the position |
| individuality. If the problem or cause comes | | | | of the particle but we don't know it's |
| from the spiritual dimension it is generally | | | | velocity. But if we observe the particle in a |
| caused by previous karma and cannot usually | | | | different way then we can know its velocity |
| be cured by Western medicine. Disease at the | | | | but not its position. So from this we can |
| mental level is caused by things that happen | | | | understand the uncertainty principle, but we |
| in a person's present life, producing | | | | still separate the object and the subject. |
| unstable states of mind, and this can be | | | | |
| cured by hypnosis or psychotherapy or | | | | They say if we look in a different way we can |
| psychological approaches. In that case the | | | | see a different thing even though it is the |
| person only needs to understand the reason, | | | | same thing. In the case of psychokinetic |
| the causes that create the problem in the | | | | energy, we send out some energy and an object |
| mind. On the physical level, if the body has | | | | can be created or changed. In quantum physics |
| been affected by a germ, one only needs | | | | they are still separated, things are not |
| medication and often in a short time the | | | | affected by the mind. That's completely |
| person will be cured. | | | | different, is it not? But now in order to |
| | | | bridge this kind of scientific view we are |
| A karmic disease, or constitutional handicap | | | | proceeding more and more in the subtle area, |
| caused by karma, is very difficult to cure, | | | | in the subtle dimension, and then we can soon |
| but if we always pray to God to help such | | | | reach the subtle energy system like the ki. |
| people, then in many cases they can be cured | | | | Physicists now understand the Big Bang but we |
| within five or 10 years. The key point is | | | | cannot explain, or we cannot find out, the |
| that they should accept the previous life | | | | initial state [ground state] of the Big Bang, |
| that relates to their disease. This is a | | | | where there is no causation, time is at zero |
| first step in controlling the emotions and | | | | or almost at zero. Why is the energy not |
| one can then observe oneself from the | | | | divided into four? Because in science we know |
| outside. That is the starting point. They | | | | only particular forms of energy like |
| pray to God and gradually they can control | | | | electricity or gravity or something like |
| their emotions and the very egocentric | | | | that. We can measure these with our machines |
| persistence (attitude) of the person | | | | so we cannot measure the energy before this |
| gradually disappears. They can then be intact | | | | discrimination but we are now getting there. |
| and in a balanced state with other people; | | | | As to ki energy, if we have someone whose |
| and they will be cured. | | | | chakras are awakened, then with a specially |
| | | | designed probe we have been able to measure |
| SI: There is a dichotomy between orthodox | | | | points on the subject's body with a high |
| medicine and the new type of healing arts | | | | potential which I believe corresponds to the |
| based on the meridians and chakras. Do you | | | | chakras and their level of activity. |
| think your work has helped to bridge this | | | | |
| gap, or is doing so? | | | | My hypothesis is that the nuclei or electrons |
| | | | at this part of the body give off much energy |
| HM: Yes, I think it has, because medicine is | | | | and then the energy changes and discharges |
| mostly concerned with mass, the material | | | | and comes out as the energy of the photon. To |
| aspect. Matter is a kind of accumulation of | | | | verify this hypothesis, we measure photons |
| energy in a fixed order. Chaos is energy but | | | | with a photon counter. If the chakra is |
| random, not in order. But when the energy is | | | | awakened and the potential is high then we |
| fixed, in order, in a certain frequency, etc, | | | | are able to detect many photons discharged |
| it becomes quantum, and this quantum is the | | | | from the body from the point corresponding to |
| origin of mass. So this quantum forms an | | | | the awakened chakra. We can verify the |
| electron or a proton or nucleus and thence an | | | | existence of the chakras and psi [psychic] |
| atom. The atoms combine and they make | | | | energy given concentration of the mind and an |
| molecules and the molecules combine to make | | | | awakened chakra, because more photons |
| DNA and protein and then us: | | | | discharge. If we concentrate the mind and |
| matter-with-consciousness. So any kind of | | | | there is not an awakened chakra then nothing |
| mass is created by energy. This energy is now | | | | happens. After three seconds or 10 seconds or |
| divided into four kinds: the weak nuclear, | | | | 20 seconds, maybe only one photon is |
| strong nuclear, the electromagnetic and | | | | detected. That is usual but the awakened |
| gravitational. Before it was divided into | | | | chakra gives a very unusual amount of photon |
| these four, maybe the energy was one and this | | | | discharge. Because we have concentrated at |
| energy, I think, is the ki energy. (Both ki | | | | the point, this near-mental concentration of |
| energy and physical energy are important in | | | | power, psychic power, gives the energy to the |
| healing and this has been the focus of my | | | | photon. That is how we can find this |
| work.) | | | | mechanism of the interaction between the mind |
| | | | and the body. That is a new science, or not a |
| SI: Ah, this is the ki, you think? | | | | new science perhaps but a new medicine which |
| | | | is closer to other religions or philosophies. |
| HM: Yes, but ki energy is still in the | | | | So now we are just approaching this door, to |
| physical dimension even if it is the | | | | open it. |
| 'beginning of the physical dimension'. So it | | | | |
| will be restricted by space and time, for | | | | SI: Would you say then that science is |
| example the T'ai Chi Chuan master we studied | | | | approaching a new paradigm, a new |
| can only project his ki energy within a fixed | | | | methodology? |
| distance. This ki energy is a mediator | | | | |
| between the mental or psychic and the | | | | HM: Yes, although many people talk about the |
| physical dimension. | | | | new paradigm, but they haven't got it, they |
| | | | are just speculating but actual research, |
| So we are proceeding now from Western | | | | like ours, embodies this new paradigm. So I |
| medicine, which deals with mass in the | | | | think this is completely different and much |
| chemical form only to the medicine of energy. | | | | more meaningful than just 'New Age' thought. |
| Then, beyond that, maybe we will reach the | | | | |
| psychic and spiritual level. | | | | SI: Yes, perhaps what is needed to bring this |
| | | | new paradigm to the fore is a new type of |
| SI: Your work, I would say, verifies the | | | | clairvoyant scientist? |
| existence of the chakras and meridians. Do | | | | |
| you have any scientific theory as to why the | | | | HM: Yes. "The new medical science will be |
| chakras and meridians are of their particular | | | | outstandingly built upon the science of the |
| form or why they follow their particular | | | | centres, and upon their knowledge all |
| paths? | | | | diagnosis and possible cure will be based." |
| | | | Esoteric Healing, by Alice A. Bailey |