| Dr Motoyama is a scientist as well as a | | | | Institute we measured many subjects, |
| yogi, philosopher and priest. He is a | | | | maybe about 100,000 so far (over 20 |
| man of many varied interests and talents | | | | years), and fortunately we have been |
| specializing in oriental medicine, | | | | able to investigate many psychics, |
| computing and electrical engineering who | | | | martial arts masters and yogis as well |
| is also a parapsychologist, spiritual | | | | as students of our own disciplines, yoga |
| healer and seer. He is head of the | | | | exercises and meditation, and so-on. We |
| Institute for Life Physics, Tokyo, and | | | | have been able to detect the chakras, |
| the California Institute for Human | | | | and also I have some ability to see the |
| Science, California. He is concerned | | | | chakras and whether they are awakened in |
| with elucidating the nature of religious | | | | a person or not. So firstly I would |
| experience and the existence of 'subtle | | | | clearly see with my ESP ability [psychic |
| energies' using scientific methods. To | | | | ability] which chakra is awakened. |
| aid in this he has built two machines: | | | | If the chakra is awakened we can see the |
| one to measure the 'ki' energy in the | | | | very bright colours of the aura and also |
| meridians (the AMI machine) and another | | | | feel much energy from this awakened |
| to measure the energy of the chakras or | | | | chakra. Then we measured subjects with |
| energy centres of the body (The Chakra | | | | the AMI machine and have been able to |
| instrument). The AMI instrument is in | | | | determine if particular chakras are |
| use in some American and many Japanese | | | | awakened, for example those who have the |
| medical institutions as a diagnostic | | | | manipura chakra awakened have highly |
| tool and for research into health and | | | | energized spleen, liver, stomach |
| disease and also the paranormal. In this | | | | meridians. After analysing much data |
| interview with Share International he | | | | obtained from many kinds of psychics or |
| talks about some of his scientific ideas | | | | 'normal' people, I found, on the basis |
| and thoughts for the future development | | | | of this data and on the basis of my own |
| of this area of research and diagnosis. | | | | super-natural understanding of such |
| Share International: Dr Motoyama, could | | | | people, that we could connect the |
| you tell us how you got the idea for | | | | specific meridians with each chakra and |
| building the AMI machine and what are | | | | link this with traditional theories |
| the actual physical principles on which | | | | about the chakras. For example, a person |
| it is based? | | | | with an awakened manipura chakra can |
| Dr Hiroshi Motoyama: Yes. I had many | | | | control the emotions, and also the |
| experiences, beginning 40 to 45 years | | | | functioning of the digestive system. We |
| ago, of the flow of vital energies | | | | learnt much about each meridian and |
| during my yoga exercises and I clearly | | | | chakra from working with yogis and could |
| felt, around the meridians [energy | | | | link this with our AMI data. |
| channels], some vital energy like water | | | | SI: I know you have done some work on |
| and heat going around my body. | | | | telepathy between individuals and have |
| Particularly I felt Kundalini Shakti or | | | | found how different kinds of telepathy |
| power was very strong around the spine. | | | | affect the different chakras. Could you |
| At about this time I suffered a lot from | | | | say something about that? |
| disease and instability and for this | | | | HM: Telepathy usually affects, in |
| reason I often couldn't get up, so I | | | | different ways, the different chakras. |
| decided to practise Yoga. After six | | | | Mostly, telepathy in which companions |
| months to a year I was so much better | | | | are connected or related by their |
| that I began to experience for myself | | | | emotions or by the imagination is due to |
| the ki or prana energy in my body. | | | | the manipura centre (solar plexus) |
| Later when I was a young lecturer in | | | | receiving that telepathy. The person who |
| science at Tokyo University, my students | | | | has awakened the manipura is very |
| did not believe me when I told them of | | | | sensitive, can be affected by other |
| my experiences, using logical arguments | | | | people very easily and finds it easy to |
| only. I thought that their minds were | | | | receive information from 'outside'. They |
| too heavily influenced by science and so | | | | can easily be influenced by the power of |
| I wanted to verify such vital or subtle | | | | the other person and information can |
| energies flowing in the body by | | | | easily come in. However if a person has |
| scientific methods or research.The first | | | | awakened the ajna chakra [the energy |
| time I measured this type of body | | | | centre between the eyebrows] the |
| function was with the EEG | | | | telepathy is very different. Then it is |
| Electroencephalogram or ECG | | | | a very pure, intellectual telepathy and |
| Electrocardiogram methods used in | | | | very clear, whereas the telepathy given |
| traditional Western medicine, but it is | | | | through the manipura chakra is very much |
| very difficult to detect such energy, | | | | connected with the emotions and with a |
| and Western medicine can 'catch' only | | | | person's own imagination. Sometimes it |
| the nervous or muscle tension in the | | | | can be mixed with unconscious thoughts. |
| form of electricity, electrical | | | | If either the manipura or the ajna |
| potential or active potential in the | | | | centre is awakened, it is possible to |
| nerves. | | | | both receive telepathy or send |
| One day, about 25 years ago, I was | | | | telepathic transmission at will to |
| invited by a visiting professor to his | | | | others. However in the case where the |
| university in India where we examined, | | | | svadisthana chakra [the sacral centre] |
| using EEG and so-on, Yogis and T'ai Chi | | | | is awakened, all such people have some |
| Chuan masters. I think all the hard work | | | | telepathic ability and can receive some |
| we did gave me a stomach ulcer, partly | | | | information from others, but the ability |
| because during the spiritual | | | | is only spontaneous; they cannot control |
| consultations I did with many people I | | | | it at will and cannot send telepathic |
| used only the Manipura (solar plexus or | | | | thoughts to others. So if people say |
| Hara) chakra, which connects to the | | | | they sometimes have intuition or |
| stomach meridian.After my stay in India | | | | telepathy but they cannot control it at |
| I thought perhaps my investigations of | | | | will, that means their telepathy mostly |
| such an idea of prana or ki energy were | | | | belongs to the svadisthana chakra, and |
| wrong, as we cannot measure or detect | | | | is very raw. |
| these energies with traditional medical | | | | SI: Could you explain a little bit about |
| instruments. So I decided to develop a | | | | what you mean by subjective and |
| new machine. I had studied electronic | | | | objective science? |
| engineering while at the naval academy | | | | HM: Objective science means we can |
| and at university, so now I was able to | | | | understand or observe something from a |
| build a circuit to make a new machine to | | | | common base with other people. Sometimes |
| find a way of detecting the 'body fluid | | | | also objective means the science that is |
| function'. That is the history of the | | | | based on the sense perceptions. For |
| AMI, which stands for Apparatus for | | | | example, I can see this cup: you can see |
| measuring the functioning of the | | | | it also, and this means we can say it is |
| Meridians and their corresponding | | | | objective. But the subjective is always |
| Internal organs. | | | | there. For example we both see this cup |
| SI: Have you built any other machines | | | | but perhaps you perceive it differently |
| apart from the AMI? | | | | from me according to your subjective |
| HM: Yes. My other machine is the chakra | | | | feeling and understanding which is |
| machine which was developed two-to-three | | | | different from mine. We can say the same |
| years after completing the AMI machine. | | | | thing about intuition or telepathy. |
| By directing energy from the subtle | | | | Sometimes people say that intuition is |
| energy centre of the chakra the | | | | very subjective, but I don't think so. |
| surrounding electromagnetic environment | | | | If you have the same ability as I have, |
| can perhaps be changed. Also the lower | | | | you can, for example, see the same kind |
| body has a kind of static potential | | | | of spiritual entity as I do, so |
| which disappears when energy is | | | | sometimes during meditation with my |
| discharged from the body. So, in a | | | | disciples and students we receive the |
| completely dark room, insulated from | | | | same kind of telepathic information. |
| physical energies from outside, a person | | | | That means some activity common to all, |
| with psychic ability can direct energy | | | | doesn't it? So there are many meanings |
| via their awakened chakra and produce | | | | of objective and subjective. |
| light and we can detect this light and | | | | SI: My understanding of quantum physics |
| its direction. The instrument to detect | | | | is that the observer can actually affect |
| this light and the changes in the | | | | what is observed, that the two are |
| electromagnetic field is called the | | | | linked. Doesn't this form a link between |
| chakra machine. This machine's first aim | | | | Western science and Eastern philosophies |
| was to register light or psychokinetic | | | | or religions? |
| power and to see if it could influence | | | | HM: The quantum, for instance, as in the |
| an electrical atmosphere, or whether a | | | | Heisenberg uncertainty principle, |
| person can produce light or not. | | | | depends only on the instrument we use to |
| SI: Can you yourself detect or see | | | | observe things. For instance if we use a |
| whether an illness has a karmic cause, | | | | photon to observe elementary particles |
| is incurable, or whether it can be | | | | like electrons or neutrons, according to |
| cured? | | | | the type of measurement used we can |
| HM: That depends on one's understanding | | | | measure the position of the particle but |
| of the human being. I understand the | | | | we don't know it's velocity. But if we |
| human being to consist of three | | | | observe the particle in a different way |
| dimensions: a body, mind and spirit and | | | | then we can know its velocity but not |
| each of them has individuality. If the | | | | its position. So from this we can |
| problem or cause comes from the | | | | understand the uncertainty principle, |
| spiritual dimension it is generally | | | | but we still separate the object and the |
| caused by previous karma and cannot | | | | subject. |
| usually be cured by Western medicine. | | | | They say if we look in a different way |
| Disease at the mental level is caused by | | | | we can see a different thing even though |
| things that happen in a person's present | | | | it is the same thing. In the case of |
| life, producing unstable states of mind, | | | | psychokinetic energy, we send out some |
| and this can be cured by hypnosis or | | | | energy and an object can be created or |
| psychotherapy or psychological | | | | changed. In quantum physics they are |
| approaches. In that case the person only | | | | still separated, things are not affected |
| needs to understand the reason, the | | | | by the mind. That's completely |
| causes that create the problem in the | | | | different, is it not? But now in order |
| mind. On the physical level, if the body | | | | to bridge this kind of scientific view |
| has been affected by a germ, one only | | | | we are proceeding more and more in the |
| needs medication and often in a short | | | | subtle area, in the subtle dimension, |
| time the person will be cured. | | | | and then we can soon reach the subtle |
| A karmic disease, or constitutional | | | | energy system like the ki. Physicists |
| handicap caused by karma, is very | | | | now understand the Big Bang but we |
| difficult to cure, but if we always pray | | | | cannot explain, or we cannot find out, |
| to God to help such people, then in many | | | | the initial state [ground state] of the |
| cases they can be cured within five or | | | | Big Bang, where there is no causation, |
| 10 years. The key point is that they | | | | time is at zero or almost at zero. Why |
| should accept the previous life that | | | | is the energy not divided into four? |
| relates to their disease. This is a | | | | Because in science we know only |
| first step in controlling the emotions | | | | particular forms of energy like |
| and one can then observe oneself from | | | | electricity or gravity or something like |
| the outside. That is the starting point. | | | | that. We can measure these with our |
| They pray to God and gradually they can | | | | machines so we cannot measure the energy |
| control their emotions and the very | | | | before this discrimination but we are |
| egocentric persistence (attitude) of the | | | | now getting there. As to ki energy, if |
| person gradually disappears. They can | | | | we have someone whose chakras are |
| then be intact and in a balanced state | | | | awakened, then with a specially designed |
| with other people; and they will be | | | | probe we have been able to measure |
| cured. | | | | points on the subject's body with a high |
| SI: There is a dichotomy between | | | | potential which I believe corresponds to |
| orthodox medicine and the new type of | | | | the chakras and their level of activity. |
| healing arts based on the meridians and | | | | My hypothesis is that the nuclei or |
| chakras. Do you think your work has | | | | electrons at this part of the body give |
| helped to bridge this gap, or is doing | | | | off much energy and then the energy |
| so? | | | | changes and discharges and comes out as |
| HM: Yes, I think it has, because | | | | the energy of the photon. To verify this |
| medicine is mostly concerned with mass, | | | | hypothesis, we measure photons with a |
| the material aspect. Matter is a kind of | | | | photon counter. If the chakra is |
| accumulation of energy in a fixed order. | | | | awakened and the potential is high then |
| Chaos is energy but random, not in | | | | we are able to detect many photons |
| order. But when the energy is fixed, in | | | | discharged from the body from the point |
| order, in a certain frequency, etc, it | | | | corresponding to the awakened chakra. We |
| becomes quantum, and this quantum is the | | | | can verify the existence of the chakras |
| origin of mass. So this quantum forms an | | | | and psi [psychic] energy given |
| electron or a proton or nucleus and | | | | concentration of the mind and an |
| thence an atom. The atoms combine and | | | | awakened chakra, because more photons |
| they make molecules and the molecules | | | | discharge. If we concentrate the mind |
| combine to make DNA and protein and then | | | | and there is not an awakened chakra then |
| us: matter-with-consciousness. So any | | | | nothing happens. After three seconds or |
| kind of mass is created by energy. This | | | | 10 seconds or 20 seconds, maybe only one |
| energy is now divided into four kinds: | | | | photon is detected. That is usual but |
| the weak nuclear, strong nuclear, the | | | | the awakened chakra gives a very unusual |
| electromagnetic and gravitational. | | | | amount of photon discharge. Because we |
| Before it was divided into these four, | | | | have concentrated at the point, this |
| maybe the energy was one and this | | | | near-mental concentration of power, |
| energy, I think, is the ki energy. (Both | | | | psychic power, gives the energy to the |
| ki energy and physical energy are | | | | photon. That is how we can find this |
| important in healing and this has been | | | | mechanism of the interaction between the |
| the focus of my work.) | | | | mind and the body. That is a new |
| SI: Ah, this is the ki, you think? | | | | science, or not a new science perhaps |
| HM: Yes, but ki energy is still in the | | | | but a new medicine which is closer to |
| physical dimension even if it is the | | | | other religions or philosophies. So now |
| 'beginning of the physical dimension'. | | | | we are just approaching this door, to |
| So it will be restricted by space and | | | | open it. |
| time, for example the T'ai Chi Chuan | | | | SI: Would you say then that science is |
| master we studied can only project his | | | | approaching a new paradigm, a new |
| ki energy within a fixed distance. This | | | | methodology? |
| ki energy is a mediator between the | | | | HM: Yes, although many people talk about |
| mental or psychic and the physical | | | | the new paradigm, but they haven't got |
| dimension. | | | | it, they are just speculating but actual |
| So we are proceeding now from Western | | | | research, like ours, embodies this new |
| medicine, which deals with mass in the | | | | paradigm. So I think this is completely |
| chemical form only to the medicine of | | | | different and much more meaningful than |
| energy. Then, beyond that, maybe we will | | | | just 'New Age' thought. |
| reach the psychic and spiritual level. | | | | SI: Yes, perhaps what is needed to bring |
| SI: Your work, I would say, verifies the | | | | this new paradigm to the fore is a new |
| existence of the chakras and meridians. | | | | type of clairvoyant scientist? |
| Do you have any scientific theory as to | | | | HM: Yes. "The new medical science will |
| why the chakras and meridians are of | | | | be outstandingly built upon the science |
| their particular form or why they follow | | | | of the centres, and upon their knowledge |
| their particular paths? | | | | all diagnosis and possible cure will be |
| HM: Before we make a theory we must find | | | | based." Esoteric Healing, by Alice A. |
| out the facts. So at my Research | | | | Bailey |